Comments on: Ambassadors of Conscience http://blogs.sanmathi.org/anasuya/2006/10/17/ambassadors-of-conscience/ Anasuya's musings and amusings about life, the universe and whatever Tue, 07 Oct 2008 06:45:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: anasuya http://blogs.sanmathi.org/anasuya/2006/10/17/ambassadors-of-conscience/#comment-128 anasuya Wed, 01 Nov 2006 03:43:34 +0000 http://blogs.sanmathi.org/anasuya/2006/10/17/ambassadors-of-conscience/#comment-128 Dear ivtec: Just back from a long trip and saw this. Let me clarify: whatever the complexities around legal representation - though I agree we need to know more, and there should be more transparency around what happened (wish I knew Nandita Haksar personally, but I don't) - it still doesn't take away from the fact that I believe that the death penalty is not the answer. Lies, damn lies or stutter-stics notwithstanding. In other words, however many times you might call it an untruth, it doesn't lessen this truth for me: capital punishment cannot be the way this world lives out justice. Whether for Mohammed Afzal or for Santosh Kumar Singh. Priyadarshini Mattoo and this nation deserve better from us. Dear ivtec: Just back from a long trip and saw this. Let me clarify: whatever the complexities around legal representation - though I agree we need to know more, and there should be more transparency around what happened (wish I knew Nandita Haksar personally, but I don’t) - it still doesn’t take away from the fact that I believe that the death penalty is not the answer. Lies, damn lies or stutter-stics notwithstanding.

In other words, however many times you might call it an untruth, it doesn’t lessen this truth for me: capital punishment cannot be the way this world lives out justice. Whether for Mohammed Afzal or for Santosh Kumar Singh. Priyadarshini Mattoo and this nation deserve better from us.

]]> By: ivtec http://blogs.sanmathi.org/anasuya/2006/10/17/ambassadors-of-conscience/#comment-127 ivtec Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:32:15 +0000 http://blogs.sanmathi.org/anasuya/2006/10/17/ambassadors-of-conscience/#comment-127 The Supreme Court dealt on this issue at length, and refuted the claims that Afzal Guru had no legal support. Fact of the matter is that the claim that Afzal had no lawyer is simply a lie. He HAD a lawyer except for a brief period of two weeks or so when no important business was transacted in the courts. The Supreme Court notes this point too. Even this gap in his defence arose because the lawyer representing him quit to take up another client's defence. This client happened to be Afzal's co-accused Geelani. You should ask Nandita Haskar why was it that the lawyer representing Afzal was 'stolen' for Geelani's defence. My question remains: why does any cause have to be defended with untruths? What can one say about such causes? The Supreme Court dealt on this issue at length, and refuted the claims that Afzal Guru had no legal support. Fact of the matter is that the claim that Afzal had no lawyer is simply a lie. He HAD a lawyer except for a brief period of two weeks or so when no important business was transacted in the courts. The Supreme Court notes this point too.

Even this gap in his defence arose because the lawyer representing him quit to take up another client’s defence. This client happened to be Afzal’s co-accused Geelani. You should ask Nandita Haskar why was it that the lawyer representing Afzal was ’stolen’ for Geelani’s defence.

My question remains: why does any cause have to be defended with untruths? What can one say about such causes?

]]> By: anasuya http://blogs.sanmathi.org/anasuya/2006/10/17/ambassadors-of-conscience/#comment-126 anasuya Thu, 19 Oct 2006 08:44:32 +0000 http://blogs.sanmathi.org/anasuya/2006/10/17/ambassadors-of-conscience/#comment-126 @Manu: Really liked your aunt's website, thanks for pointing it out. Will try and call you next week, nijvagalu. Thondre yen andre, naanu seedha Rutgers hogbittu vaapas bartha iddinni. No time in the midst of it at all... We'll swalpa adjust maadi-fy next time. @Manu: Really liked your aunt’s website, thanks for pointing it out. Will try and call you next week, nijvagalu. Thondre yen andre, naanu seedha Rutgers hogbittu vaapas bartha iddinni. No time in the midst of it at all…

We’ll swalpa adjust maadi-fy next time.

]]> By: anasuya http://blogs.sanmathi.org/anasuya/2006/10/17/ambassadors-of-conscience/#comment-125 anasuya Thu, 19 Oct 2006 08:33:00 +0000 http://blogs.sanmathi.org/anasuya/2006/10/17/ambassadors-of-conscience/#comment-125 @Ashish: You're very right, punishment itself is a complex issue - but in my opinion, capital punishment should be abolished; the death penalty is not the answer. Yes, for heinous crimes, life imprisonment is what we should seek. But working with the criminal justice system as I do, I also see the frailties of the system, up close and personal. I believe innately in a just, constitutional system, but I do know how many people are left out of that loop in so many ways - for every Priyadarshini whose murderer is convicted (though in a case which re-opened mainly through civil society protest), are thousands of women raped or murdered who have no privilege, no power, no influence, no access to public opinion or the justness of a justice system. What tends to happen is that the system is skewed against the complainant, towards the accused, so that the higher the punishment sought, the less likely is the conviction. When there is conviction, it almost always tends to be of those who are poor, less privileged, who have no access to the portals (and possibilities) of influence like Manu Sharma in the Jessica Lall case... Institutions are a sum of their individual parts, and sometimes greater than the sum. While there are those who show extraordinary courage and individual as well as institutional will to give justice, there will always be those tempted into being less than they should be (and who may admit it only in a suicide note). @ivtec: If you see Nandita Haksar's full statement at http://www.theotherindia.org/human-rights/why-care-about-a-man-called-afzal.html you will find that it is the courts themselves who note the illegalities of his trial with concern. To quote: "the courts noted with concern that evidence was fabricated and he never had a lawyer who represented him. The Designated Judge passed an order giving Afzal the right to cross-examine witnesses but even a person with legal training without knowledge of criminal law would find it difficult to conduct such a trial." All of us sometimes call inconvenient truth a lie. It's up to us, really, to understand - and be honest about - the difference. @Ashish: You’re very right, punishment itself is a complex issue - but in my opinion, capital punishment should be abolished; the death penalty is not the answer. Yes, for heinous crimes, life imprisonment is what we should seek. But working with the criminal justice system as I do, I also see the frailties of the system, up close and personal. I believe innately in a just, constitutional system, but I do know how many people are left out of that loop in so many ways - for every Priyadarshini whose murderer is convicted (though in a case which re-opened mainly through civil society protest), are thousands of women raped or murdered who have no privilege, no power, no influence, no access to public opinion or the justness of a justice system. What tends to happen is that the system is skewed against the complainant, towards the accused, so that the higher the punishment sought, the less likely is the conviction. When there is conviction, it almost always tends to be of those who are poor, less privileged, who have no access to the portals (and possibilities) of influence like Manu Sharma in the Jessica Lall case… Institutions are a sum of their individual parts, and sometimes greater than the sum. While there are those who show extraordinary courage and individual as well as institutional will to give justice, there will always be those tempted into being less than they should be (and who may admit it only in a suicide note).

@ivtec: If you see Nandita Haksar’s full statement at http://www.theotherindia.org/human-rights/why-care-about-a-man-called-afzal.html
you will find that it is the courts themselves who note the illegalities of his trial with concern. To quote: “the courts noted with concern that evidence was fabricated and he never had a lawyer who represented him. The Designated Judge passed an order giving Afzal the right to cross-examine witnesses but even a person with legal training without knowledge of criminal law would find it difficult to conduct such a trial.”

All of us sometimes call inconvenient truth a lie. It’s up to us, really, to understand - and be honest about - the difference.

]]> By: ivtec http://blogs.sanmathi.org/anasuya/2006/10/17/ambassadors-of-conscience/#comment-124 ivtec Thu, 19 Oct 2006 07:37:31 +0000 http://blogs.sanmathi.org/anasuya/2006/10/17/ambassadors-of-conscience/#comment-124 "if a fellow citizen is hanged without having a chance to defend himself? We have not even had a chance to hear Afzal’s story." Lie. Afzal's "story" was more than heard. He had a lawyer. What can one say about a "cause" that is sought to be pushed with the aid of lies? “if a fellow citizen is hanged without having a chance to defend himself? We have not even had a chance to hear Afzal’s story.”

Lie. Afzal’s “story” was more than heard. He had a lawyer.

What can one say about a “cause” that is sought to be pushed with the aid of lies?

]]> By: Ashish http://blogs.sanmathi.org/anasuya/2006/10/17/ambassadors-of-conscience/#comment-123 Ashish Wed, 18 Oct 2006 18:40:42 +0000 http://blogs.sanmathi.org/anasuya/2006/10/17/ambassadors-of-conscience/#comment-123 The field of capital punishment is a very complex topic, and there are plenty of arguments for and against it. Obviously, convicting an accused man is a major issue. A lot of countries have also abolished capital punishment. The other side of the argument talks about justice: There are serial murderers, terrorists who see nothing wrong in killing people for a cause. What do you tell the family of Priyadarshini Mattoo whose life was snuffed out in cold blood. The alternative is a life sentence; anything less than that would be injustice, and no society can function that allows leniency in such cases. I do not know the minute details of the Afzal case, but I do know that the main terrorists are dead, and conspirators in case of heinous crimes are held to be as guilty as the perpetrators. Further, the law system typically takes a much harsher view of terrorism, casting such people as acting against the state, for which punishments are typically more severe. If Afzal was wilfully deprived of a lawyer, then that would be a traversty of justice because any law system does treat any accused an innocent until proven guilty. The field of capital punishment is a very complex topic, and there are plenty of arguments for and against it. Obviously, convicting an accused man is a major issue. A lot of countries have also abolished capital punishment.
The other side of the argument talks about justice: There are serial murderers, terrorists who see nothing wrong in killing people for a cause. What do you tell the family of Priyadarshini Mattoo whose life was snuffed out in cold blood.
The alternative is a life sentence; anything less than that would be injustice, and no society can function that allows leniency in such cases.
I do not know the minute details of the Afzal case, but I do know that the main terrorists are dead, and conspirators in case of heinous crimes are held to be as guilty as the perpetrators. Further, the law system typically takes a much harsher view of terrorism, casting such people as acting against the state, for which punishments are typically more severe. If Afzal was wilfully deprived of a lawyer, then that would be a traversty of justice because any law system does treat any accused an innocent until proven guilty.

]]> By: Manu http://blogs.sanmathi.org/anasuya/2006/10/17/ambassadors-of-conscience/#comment-122 Manu Wed, 18 Oct 2006 12:11:38 +0000 http://blogs.sanmathi.org/anasuya/2006/10/17/ambassadors-of-conscience/#comment-122 Hey Alo, looks like you had fun in Goa. Do call when you are at Rutgers. Depending on things, maybe we could meet up? Also, check out http://www.priyawriting.com/index.htm which is my aunt's website. She's incidentally Malavika Sarukkai's sister. Everything else is fine. Talk to you soon. M Hey Alo, looks like you had fun in Goa. Do call when you are at Rutgers. Depending on things, maybe we could meet up? Also, check out http://www.priyawriting.com/index.htm which is my aunt’s website. She’s incidentally Malavika Sarukkai’s sister.

Everything else is fine. Talk to you soon.

M

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